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Harvey

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #120 on: November 24, 2020, 04:57:21 pm »
I think my use of videos was fine.

Sorry, I was speaking in more general terms about Mammal's comment and not specifically about whether he was right or wrong wrt your video.

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Mammal

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #121 on: November 25, 2020, 02:33:00 am »
bskeptic, I already addressed the things you raised in your last post. I am not sure what you want me to do or say, do you want to force me to watch the YouTube video's that I did not want to do in the first place? I have nothing further to add; I think you are getting a tad finicky here.
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Mammal

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2020, 11:52:44 am »
So now that the (conservative loaded) Supreme Court also noted and dismissed the folly of the outgoing POTUS and fellow Republicans in what was nothing but a conspired, but failed coup, how to mend the big divide left in its wake? Has Trump finally been exposed for his fake reality presidency..sufficiently so?
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Harvey

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #123 on: December 13, 2020, 09:18:04 am »
So now that the (conservative loaded) Supreme Court also noted and dismissed the folly of the outgoing POTUS and fellow Republicans in what was nothing but a conspired, but failed coup, how to mend the big divide left in its wake? Has Trump finally been exposed for his fake reality presidency..sufficiently so?

Haha. Trump will be back unless he dies or has a major health setback. Soon the Dems will show us how radical they are and people will quickly tire of their radical policies and bailouts.

For me the whole voter fraud allegation was probably beneficial in the longterm. It will put more pressure on state election boards to strive for more transparency and oversight on a national level which is a good thing. It also will prevent any permanent use of ballot harvesting and mail-in voting in non-pandemic years if the High Court gets to review cases that involve these two issues. Overall this was probably needed. We can't trust the radicals in either party.

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ChristianInvestigator

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #124 on: December 13, 2020, 09:57:55 am »
So now that the (conservative loaded) Supreme Court also noted and dismissed the folly of the outgoing POTUS and fellow Republicans in what was nothing but a conspired, but failed coup, how to mend the big divide left in its wake? Has Trump finally been exposed for his fake reality presidency..sufficiently so?

Haha. Trump will be back unless he dies or has a major health setback. Soon the Dems will show us how radical they are and people will quickly tire of their radical policies and bailouts.

For me the whole voter fraud allegation was probably beneficial in the longterm. It will put more pressure on state election boards to strive for more transparency and oversight on a national level which is a good thing. It also will prevent any permanent use of ballot harvesting and mail-in voting in non-pandemic years if the High Court gets to review cases that involve these two issues. Overall this was probably needed. We can't trust the radicals in either party.

Yeah, that's a good point. There definitely was some voter fraud in this last election, although I don't believe it was enough to change the results. Biden definitely won.

However, this whole fiasco should lead policy makers to (in the future) make sure elections are more secure so this kind of things doesn't happen. And ease off on computerized voting machines -- as the NYT video showed, they're far too easy to hack into.
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GRWelsh

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #125 on: December 13, 2020, 10:12:42 am »
For me the whole voter fraud allegation was probably beneficial in the longterm.

I disagree.  Rather than make an accusation based upon evidence, Trump made an accusation and then encouraged his followers to look for evidence.  He repeated his accusation until his supporters believed it simply based on their leader's sense of conviction.  Many in the Republican party are enabling Trump's delusion, out of fear or desire for power, rather than any respect for the truth.  Trump is a would-be dictator trying to overturn a legal election by accusing the other side of fraud without evidence.  It's unforgivable, sets a precedent, and it is damaging to our democracy.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 11:47:29 am by GRWelsh »
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Mammal

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #126 on: December 13, 2020, 01:28:49 pm »
Voter fraud is just false. There is no evidence. When, if ever, will people realize that the courts have repeatedly denied Trump & Co's submissions because...there is NO evidence.. The fakeness has always been on Trump's side.
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ChristianInvestigator

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2020, 02:10:25 pm »
Voter fraud is just false. There is no evidence. When, if ever, will people realize that the courts have repeatedly denied Trump & Co's submissions because...there is NO evidence.. The fakeness has always been on Trump's side.

Uhhh... depends on what you mean. Obviously there were a few isolated incidents of voter fraud in various states, as well as general mismanagement of the election and mail-in ballots. Like I said before, I don't believe there was a "massive conspiracy" or that "Trump really won." But there was a fair amount of voting fraud and mishap this election. Some of it was intentional, some of it was just sloppy. Don't you agree?

https://disrn.com/news/michigan-rejects-846-mail-in-ballots-because-the-voter-was-dead

https://disrn.com/news/dead-people-and-pets-among-the-half-million-incorrect-absentee-voter-applications-mailed-out-in-virginia

https://disrn.com/news/4-charged-in-nj-mail-in-voter-fraud-19-of-ballots-rejected

https://disrn.com/news/florida-election-officials-uncover-plot-to-register-dead-voters-as-democrats

https://disrn.com/news/nearly-29000-voters-received-incorrect-ballots-in-pa-county

https://disrn.com/news/more-than-50k-voters-in-ohio-county-get-wrong-absentee-ballots

https://disrn.com/news/over-1000-voters-receive-two-absentee-ballots-in-virginia

https://disrn.com/news/ga-recount-finds-2600-uncounted-ballots-in-one-county-about-1600-for-trump

https://disrn.com/news/over-3000-new-uncounted-ballots-discovered-in-georgia-election-audit

https://disrn.com/news/post-office-failed-to-deliver-over-150000-ballots-by-election-day

I will grant this: In most of the news stories I linked, the state and local governments recognized the mistakes/fraud and fixed the problem before it was too late. But it raises the question: How much fraud and mishap occurred that we didn't catch in time? Not enough to overturn the election results. But enough that we should be working to make sure this doesn't happen next time.
"This year, though I'm far from home
In Trench I'm not alone.
These faces facing me,
They know... what I mean."

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GRWelsh

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2020, 03:09:26 pm »
There's always some voter fraud.  And of course we should always try to prevent it.  The question is whether there was fraud carried out by the Democratic party on a nationwide level in order to steal the election from Trump.  Even before the election, Trump was claiming the only way Biden could win is if the Democrats stole the election.  What was the evidence to support that accusation?  On the election day, Trump declared himself the winner before the vote count was even completed.  Who is the fraud, here?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 03:12:56 pm by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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ChristianInvestigator

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2020, 06:21:23 pm »
There's always some voter fraud.  And of course we should always try to prevent it.  The question is whether there was fraud carried out by the Democratic party on a nationwide level in order to steal the election from Trump.  Even before the election, Trump was claiming the only way Biden could win is if the Democrats stole the election.  What was the evidence to support that accusation?  On the election day, Trump declared himself the winner before the vote count was even completed.  Who is the fraud, here?

I agree with you here. Although there were fraud carried out by some Democrats in some areas, there's no evidence that the Democratic party arranged nationwide voter fraud.
"This year, though I'm far from home
In Trench I'm not alone.
These faces facing me,
They know... what I mean."

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Harvey

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2020, 11:52:57 pm »
I agree with you here. Although there were fraud carried out by some Democrats in some areas, there's no evidence that the Democratic party arranged nationwide voter fraud.

Ballot harvesting is widespread fraud as far as I'm concerned.

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Mammal

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #131 on: December 14, 2020, 12:01:30 am »
Why do you think that the kind of petty instances of alleged voter/voting fraud was limited to Democrats? I would think such things take place on a smallish scale on both sides. In this instance, it was the Republicans who were digging for dirt on the other side, hence the one-sided reporting.

But, thats hardly the point. There was NO credible evidence of voter fraud or election rigging presented to any court where the various Trump cases were heard.

Trump & Co and some Republicans are even critical of the courts, while of course it is a simple matter of an obvious and unsubstantiated attempt by them to deny many people their constitutional right to democratically elect their president and to accept only those who voted for him.
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GRWelsh

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #132 on: December 14, 2020, 07:30:42 am »
Trump and company are critical of the courts because even though they've loaded up the courts with the Republicans, the judges -- to their credit, and unlike most of the Republicans in Congress -- aren't going along with the fraud.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: we're dodging a bullet here, and it is only because of the separation of powers.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 08:32:32 am by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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GRWelsh

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #133 on: December 14, 2020, 08:48:17 am »
Ballot harvesting is widespread fraud as far as I'm concerned.

I don't see how it can be widespread fraud if it is legal.  If you think it shouldn't be legal for certain reasons, you can make that argument, but currently ballot collecting or 'harvesting' as you call it is not a crime in many states.  I suspect most Republicans don't 'trust' it because it makes it easier for minorities, the poor, the elderly, shut-ins, etc. to get their vote in and so may have a net effect of disproportionately benefiting Democratic candidates more than Republicans.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 09:37:37 am by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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Molinist

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Re: Serious Voter Fraud is Alleged
« Reply #134 on: December 14, 2020, 10:04:58 am »
It's hilarious to see people on this forum who dogmatically express their views on the fraudulence of the election. Multiple times, leftist media outlets are being referenced... Only fools are dogmatically against the idea of a fraudulent election.

Thousands of affidavits, several videos showing fraud, several people already arrested for voter fraud, 1000s of dead people voting confirmed, digital forensic evidence provided showing remote access - internet enabled voting machines, mathematically impossible voting patterns, etc... and STILL you claim there is ZERO evidence of voter fraud?

Your lack of skepistism is an indication of bias against Trump. Your lack of understanding that this is all part of the major Christian prosecution. Leftism hates Christianity. Karl Marx called religion the opium of the people, he was an anti-theist. You really think Satan is not at play here?

Several false rebuttals have been exposed from main stream media, they are lying to you.

This is not to say I am claiming a completely rigged election, I'm not foolish enough to involve myself in dogma; although from the EVIDENCE presented, there was LARGE voter fraud from one party, whether it's large enough to flip the election, I don't know.