lapwing

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Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« on: November 15, 2020, 10:54:29 pm »
Despite his off putting character Trump ran Biden close. So will the Republicans stick with Trumpism or reject it?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Spero

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2020, 11:26:08 pm »
Probably depends.  If the Dems continue on a leftward trajectory over the next four years, Trumpism may actually grow. 
Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.

- Proverbs 16:18

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wonderer

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2020, 11:29:49 pm »
Trump can blackmail Republicans via his ability to manipulate his base.  If, and/or how rapidly that will change is an open question.  I suspect the Republicans are effectively Trump's for the next four years.
"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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lapwing

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2020, 05:22:35 am »
I  agree with both of you but I think the nomination will be fiercely contested and I doubt Trump will be fit enough to contest it but will groom a successor instead.
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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GRWelsh

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2020, 07:05:20 am »
Trump is still enormously popular with his base, which constitutes a significant percentage of Republican voters.  They love him.  When he leaves office, there is no reason to expect he will be quiet.  I expect the Trump rallies to continue in one way or another, Trump 2024 signs to show up fairly quickly and for Trump to be back on TV in a major way.  He loves attention.  I've heard people float the idea that he may start his own media channel, and I think that is plausible.  So, I don't think Trumpism as a phenomenon is over by a long shot.  It still seems risky for Republicans to defy or fact check Trump, but I do see a divide within the party over the voter fraud claims.  I'm hoping it leads to a permanent rift among Republicans, with Trumpism transforming into a shrinking conspiracy bubble with an alternate reality inside it that eventually just pops or goes away.

I'm not even sure calling this movement Trumpism is a good title, as it seems to predate Trump with the tea party, the alt-right, rural militias and all of that.  Trump just sort of emerged as a champion for that movement.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 08:42:07 am by GRWelsh »
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Harvey

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2020, 11:34:23 am »
Trump can blackmail Republicans via his ability to manipulate his base.  If, and/or how rapidly that will change is an open question.  I suspect the Republicans are effectively Trump's for the next four years.

He's the tea party on steriods and with a leader. It could even be pretty dangerous. I wish he would just retire from politics but that's wishful thinking. The only bit of optimism is if he wants to push Ivanka into office. Although I think he will run for 2024.

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lapwing

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2020, 02:59:17 pm »
I agree with the idea that Trump is a symptom rather than a cause but he has also been a catalyst. What would have happened if he hadn't won the nomination?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Spero

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2020, 05:05:22 pm »
Trump can blackmail Republicans via his ability to manipulate his base.  If, and/or how rapidly that will change is an open question.  I suspect the Republicans are effectively Trump's for the next four years.

He's the tea party on steriods and with a leader. It could even be pretty dangerous. I wish he would just retire from politics but that's wishful thinking. The only bit of optimism is if he wants to push Ivanka into office. Although I think he will run for 2024.
Yeah, accurate way of putting it, “Tea Party on steroids.” I think from here on out we’ll just see the extremes getting more extreme and numerous...until something breaks. Moderation is getting left behind in the dust it seems, at least where the two mainstream parties are concerned. I still think most people in the country are moderate, though. I really wish we had other parties able to compete for power other than just Democrats and Republicans.  Maybe if things get worse, other parties will rise to prominence!
Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.

- Proverbs 16:18

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2020, 05:37:20 pm »
Although the data is still in flux, the 2020 election is remarkable in the sense that it had the highest voter turnout in the last 100 years. Something about Trump's platform and persona energized the Republican party in ways no previous candidate ever has. But on the same token, something about Trump's platform and persona energized the Democratic party too.

Something that will trouble Republican analysts is that, despite the energy that Trump brought to the party, he never cracked 50% of the popular vote. So, long-term, MAGA is not a winning strategy.


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a

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2020, 09:55:58 am »
Trump is still enormously popular with his base, which constitutes a significant percentage of Republican voters.  They love him.  When he leaves office, there is no reason to expect he will be quiet.  I expect the Trump rallies to continue in one way or another, Trump 2024 signs to show up fairly quickly and for Trump to be back on TV in a major way.  He loves attention.  I've heard people float the idea that he may start his own media channel, and I think that is plausible.  So, I don't think Trumpism as a phenomenon is over by a long shot.  It still seems risky for Republicans to defy or fact check Trump, but I do see a divide within the party over the voter fraud claims.  I'm hoping it leads to a permanent rift among Republicans, with Trumpism transforming into a shrinking conspiracy bubble with an alternate reality inside it that eventually just pops or goes away.

I'm not even sure calling this movement Trumpism is a good title, as it seems to predate Trump with the tea party, the alt-right, rural militias and all of that.  Trump just sort of emerged as a champion for that movement.

This is tangential but the alt-right has largely rejected Trump for failing to build the border wall and being a "Zionist shill," among other things. Richard Spencer, who's mentor coined the term and who was a figurehead of the movement during the previous election, endorsed Biden. Although Spencer and the alt-right seem to be a non-factor at this point. The movement seems to have dissipated following Charlottesville.

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a

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2020, 10:14:16 am »
Although the data is still in flux, the 2020 election is remarkable in the sense that it had the highest voter turnout in the last 100 years. Something about Trump's platform and persona energized the Republican party in ways no previous candidate ever has. But on the same token, something about Trump's platform and persona energized the Democratic party too.

Something that will trouble Republican analysts is that, despite the energy that Trump brought to the party, he never cracked 50% of the popular vote. So, long-term, MAGA is not a winning strategy.
Something that's been neglected here is that many Trump supporters (myself included) are, for lack of a better term, neoreactionaries, whose only real present concern politically is stopping the left. For every MAGA boomer I've met, I've met a dozen young people--modernists, tradcaths, evangelicals, or just apolitical but sane people--who understand that the contemporary left, informed by postmodernism and critical theory, pose an existential threat to human civilization.

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Fred

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2020, 06:11:48 pm »
He's the tea party on steriods
Do steroids induce belief in conspiracy theories? That is a huge, unfortunate aspect of Trump.  A person who thinks that way is irrational, and irrationality is dangerous.  It's fortunate he's an isolationist - he's not going to start a war on purpose.  But it implies poor judgment that could put us at risk other than war.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 08:28:46 pm by Fred »
Fred

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AgapeFire

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2020, 07:48:15 pm »
Despite his off putting character Trump ran Biden close. So will the Republicans stick with Trumpism or reject it?
I don't believe Trump, himself, would likely win again, but a right-wing, anti-establishment populism can. 

I believe it was Trump's fake populism that was largely responsible for his winning in 2016 (against the second worst - in least liked polling - Presidential candidate in U.S. history - Hillary Clinton, a corrupt, establishment corporatist/centrist Democrat).  Yes, there was the racism, religion, and economic conservatism coalition, but I did not find that strong enough to win in the post-Obama era.  Rather, Trump won over a lot of independents and former Obama voters (up to 9 million+ by some estimates) by appealing to their economic needs.  Of course, it was all fake and talk of draining the swamp turned into drowning D.C with the swamp, as he brought in more Goldman Sachs alum into key government positions than all previous Presidents combined.  His macho trade talk turned into a losing trade war (our trade deficits got larger) and fake "Great Bean Deals" (with Mexico and China).  China largely agreed to buy commodities they already needed and were depleted of, due to the trade war's effects, and not some large surplus-generating agreement.  The Trump corporate tax cuts that brought the nominal and effective corporate tax rates down to 21% and 8%, respectively (the lowest in U.S. history), mostly led to corporations buying back their own stock and creating one of the largest stock market bubbles in U.S. history (depending on which metrics you use - CAPE/Shiller PE or market cap-to-GDP - it can be said to be more overvalued than the 1929 pre-Great Depression crash and/or the 2000-01 Dot Com bust).  Hiring more workers and investing more in R&D?  Pssshhhhhh, yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight.  Greedy corporations would rather go for short-term gains and allow their execs to cash out with stock buybacks.  A $1-2 trillion infrastructure project to boost the economy and repair our broken roads, create new roads, improve our electrical grid, and create safer water sources?  Nothing.  Crickets.  That super brief 3% nominal GDP growth was off-set by $1.5 trillion in deficit spending (most in U.S. history) - this was pre-COVID spending.  There was no organic growth.  It was historic record-high, debt-driven "growth."

A low U6 unemployment (which includes those under-employed and discouraged vs. the U3) rate is about all Trump could really legitimately boast about on the economic front.  But, as he, himself, said when running against Clinton, this is also a fake number.  The real unemployment rate, he speculated and referenced some vague source on was about 30% to up to 42%.  That's because you're no longer counted if you stop looking for work or cannot find any after one year.  Labor force participation is considered a better metric by some and it was at a multi-decade low for much of Trump's Presidency, meaning people gave up even looking for work.  This improved a bit in 2019, but was still nothing to brag about.     

I think a bona fide populist with a strong grassroots backing could win and be the favorite in future elections.  We've had fake populists like Trump and Obama, because of how money in politics works (even if they really wanted such an agenda, they cannot do it if they're accepting corporate or big donor cash).  Bernie Sanders was the only candidate (who I voted for in 2016 and and 2020 in the primaries) who was a true blue, real deal populist without corporate corruption. 

The winning candidate going forward - regardless of party affiliation - will most likely have a populist message (whether real or fake).  Running on same old establishment politics is done.  Obama's two terms and policy position polling is proof of that (albeit, he was a corporatist and fake populist).  Trump, then, cemented it.  Populism is the way to win.

-AF

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formerly:  wlcgeek; keegclw; and GodLovesU - Hopefully, fourth time's a charm when it comes to remembering login info.!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:22:56 am by AgapeFire »

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AgapeFire

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2020, 09:08:09 pm »
^^^Wow.  I kind of went off there, huh?  Sorry about that if it was too intense and polemical.  *blush*
-AF

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a

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Re: Will Trumpism continue in the Republican Party?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2020, 11:12:05 am »
He's the tea party on steriods
Do steroids induce belief in conspiracy theories? That is a huge, unfortunate aspect of Trump.  A person who thinks that way is irrational, and irrationality is dangerous.  It's fortunate he's an isolationist - he's not going to start a war on purpose.  But it implies poor judgment that could put us at risk other than war.
After four years of Russiagate, conspiracy theories are America's bread and butter.