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noncontingent

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Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« on: November 18, 2020, 09:44:09 am »
I know I don't care to try to "terraform" an alien culture into one resembling my own, nor do I care to paternally feel I have the need to interfere with another culture outside the US.

If there are dangerous elements in that country and dangerous to the US, then we can simply block any movement from these countries into our own until they adopt and prove they've internalized the values of the west.


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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2020, 03:40:47 pm »
Current theories:
1. It allows us to keep pressure on Iran.
2. War on Drugs.

The reality:
The reason why we went in has now been satisfied (bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice), so the truth is that there is no good reason why we're staying at this point. It's time to bring the boys home.
Ordained Minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA)
Regent University, Master of Divinity (Chaplain Ministry)
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Harvey

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2020, 11:20:44 am »
Afghanistan allows terrorists a potential base to train and launch operations in the homeland like 9/11. Some nation building is required to at least prevent a haven for terrorists.

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bskeptic

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 12:33:54 am »
I know I don't care to try to "terraform" an alien culture into one resembling my own, nor do I care to paternally feel I have the need to interfere with another culture outside the US.

If there are dangerous elements in that country and dangerous to the US, then we can simply block any movement from these countries into our own until they adopt and prove they've internalized the values of the west.

That's racism to block them. We have to bomb them instead.

4

Fred

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 09:04:21 pm »
Afghanistan allows terrorists a potential base to train and launch operations in the homeland like 9/11. Some nation building is required to at least prevent a haven for terrorists.
That sounds sensible. Do you think Trump is being sensible about Afghanistan?
Fred

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a

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2020, 10:17:51 am »
One of the many things that Democrats and never-Trump Republicans seem to be able to agree on is that endless, undeclared wars--excuse me, overseas contingency operations--are good foreign policy.

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Fred

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 06:03:02 pm »
One of the many things that Democrats and never-Trump Republicans seem to be able to agree on is that endless, undeclared wars--excuse me, overseas contingency operations--are good foreign policy.
Do you think it wise to depart Afghanistan, given their history of training terrorists? Obama was criticized for abandoning Iraq, which apparently precipitated the rise of ISIS. 

Fred

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noncontingent

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 08:28:37 am »
Control your borders and let the heathen rage. Cut their supply lines and monitor them with drones. No point in on the ground operations. These people and their culture as long as it's based in Islam will be a failed situation.

If they can't lift themselves up then it's on them.

They could try the cultural technology of western thought based on protestant Christianity and it would change everything. But they won't. So stop it already.

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Harvey

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2020, 09:17:06 am »
That sounds sensible. Do you think Trump is being sensible about Afghanistan?

I'd like to believe that pulling out troops is the answer but I'd rather get good military advice. It seems that it's too soon

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a

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2020, 10:59:41 am »
One of the many things that Democrats and never-Trump Republicans seem to be able to agree on is that endless, undeclared wars--excuse me, overseas contingency operations--are good foreign policy.
Do you think it wise to depart Afghanistan, given their history of training terrorists? Obama was criticized for abandoning Iraq, which apparently precipitated the rise of ISIS.
Far more terrorists have been created as a result of our interventions than killed. Our boys are risking their lives protecting opium fields and pedo warlords.

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Fred

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2020, 09:17:28 pm »

Far more terrorists have been created as a result of our interventions than killed. Our boys are risking their lives protecting opium fields and pedo warlords.
Interventions are certainly the root of all hatred of America, but by now that's history. Belated isolationism isn't suddenly going to generate love for America.  There is clearly risk if we depart Afghanistan, just like there was risk when we departed Iraq - and we see how that worked out. 
Fred

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a

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 11:16:32 pm »

Far more terrorists have been created as a result of our interventions than killed. Our boys are risking their lives protecting opium fields and pedo warlords.
Interventions are certainly the root of all hatred of America, but by now that's history. Belated isolationism isn't suddenly going to generate love for America.  There is clearly risk if we depart Afghanistan, just like there was risk when we departed Iraq - and we see how that worked out.
The cost of continued presence, financially and in ill-will generated, may exceed the cost of risking another terrorist attack. Risk Managers and economists have equations for this sort of a thing. I don't know the answer, but I know the main problem (as with COVID or any number of issues  now) is people monomaniacally obsessed with the cost of withdrawing or staying to the exclusion of the other. There's also opportunity cost to consider. Imagine what we could do with the trillions we've poured into putting out fires that we either set or whose flames we fanned.

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Fred

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2020, 08:46:42 am »

The cost of continued presence, financially and in ill-will generated, may exceed the cost of risking another terrorist attack. Risk Managers and economists have equations for this sort of a thing. I don't know the answer, but I know the main problem (as with COVID or any number of issues  now) is people monomaniacally obsessed with the cost of withdrawing or staying to the exclusion of the other. There's also opportunity cost to consider. Imagine what we could do with the trillions we've poured into putting out fires that we either set or whose flames we fanned.
I agree. I also see this as an inherent problem on politics: most citizens do not have the knowledge or expertise to analyze all the pros and cons, indirect effects, costs, etc.  This is a perfect example of why we need to elect leaders with good judgment, one who is willing listen to experts, and be persuaded by facts. 
Fred

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a

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2020, 09:16:47 am »
I disagree. I think these problems are inherent in democratic politics and the solution lies with resolution via non-democratic means.

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Fred

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Re: Why are we still in Afghanistan?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 11:58:11 am »
I disagree. I think these problems are inherent in democratic politics and the solution lies with resolution via non-democratic means.
You disagree that we need leaders with good judgment?! 

What sort of "non-democratic means" are you referring to? 
Fred