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Gordon Tubbs

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The Logic of January 6th
« on: January 09, 2021, 12:46:37 pm »
Wanted to share my blog article The Logic of January 6th, which concisely is this:


1. If the core narrative* is true, then we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

2. The core narrative is true.
          i. We need to make America great again.
          ii. We need to win The Culture War.
          iii. We need to protect the Trump administration.
          iv. Donald Trump is telling the truth.
          v. We have a duty to keep our Republic intact.
          vi. The system has failed us.
          vii. We have to take matters into our own hands.
          viii. Trump said he is with us.

3. Therefore, we must storm the U.S. Capitol.
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Mammal

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2021, 12:53:51 pm »
1 Small minds
2 Little logic
Fact, Fiction or Superstition?
Thank God For Evolution
The Evolution Of God

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2021, 02:27:41 pm »
I wish it were that easy.

Sadly I know far too many intelligent and well-meaning people who are also on the deep-end with Trumpism.
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noncontingent

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2021, 09:09:05 am »
What happened is easy. People decided to go inside the capitol to voice to the ones gathered that they wanted a non-opaque election, they wanted an audit, that they had good reason to believe it was not "The most secure and fair election ever!".

It got out of hand as does any mob.

Some cap police let them in, some didn't.

Poor planning on their part.

It was not an "insurrection" or an attempt at a coup.

People going for coups don't go:

Hey, let's take over the most powerful government in the known universe! Waddaya think we're gonna need?

Hmmm.... lets see...Guy with horns? - check, handful of twist ties? - check, no lethal weapons? - check

Ok, so we're ready!

"LeeeeROY! Jenkins!"

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GRWelsh

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2021, 09:12:42 am »
Wanted to share my blog article The Logic of January 6th, which concisely is this:


1. If the core narrative* is true, then we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

2. The core narrative is true.
          i. We need to make America great again.
          ii. We need to win The Culture War.
          iii. We need to protect the Trump administration.
          iv. Donald Trump is telling the truth.
          v. We have a duty to keep our Republic intact.
          vi. The system has failed us.
          vii. We have to take matters into our own hands.
          viii. Trump said he is with us.

3. Therefore, we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

I would say ii, v and vi existed prior to Trumpism, and have been part of the conservative mindset forever.  v are vi is arguably true on both sides of the aisle.  After decades of listening to media with a conservative bias and pundits like Rush Limbaugh, they become fired up about ii.  Then along comes Trump who speaks their language and knows how to tap into their anger, indignation and sense of being wronged.  Trump becomes a larger than life heroic archetype as the outsider with the power to cut through the red tape and fight the corruption of Washington -- "the only one we can trust."  Trump supporters believe whatever he tells them, and so when he tells them the election was stolen, they believe it.  They genuinely believe the government is no longer legitimate and their Republic is being stolen from them and so they need to take action.  This message is reinforced by Trump, Trump allies, and right wing media for months until these 'patriots' are whipped up to a fever pitch and encouraged to come to Washington for a protest on January 6th. They arrive, fightin' mad, but without a plan or any single goal, and so the march on the Capitol degenerates into a looting mob.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 12:12:27 pm by GRWelsh »
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GRWelsh

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2021, 12:32:40 pm »
Hmmm.... lets see...Guy with horns? - check, handful of twist ties? - check, no lethal weapons? - check

That guy with the horns is in your tribe: he's the "QAnon Shaman."  The zip ties are used by the Police when making mass arrests.  It turns out there were pipe bombs, a cooler of Molotov cocktails and guns found stashed nearby.  They also built a gallows.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/01/11/capitol-riot-more-sinister-that-it-looked-as-gallows-pipes-and-guns-turn-up/
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/washington-dc-pipe-bombs-and-cooler-of-molotov-cocktails/65-d3fe68e9-0b79-4882-95ed-070da6abf2ee

What do you think would have happened if these rioters had caught up with Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence? 

Why did the Capitol Police open the barricades?  Why was the National Guard not allowed to come in and help?

« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:03:17 pm by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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bdsimon

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2021, 01:27:42 pm »
Wanted to share my blog article The Logic of January 6th, which concisely is this:


1. If the core narrative* is true, then we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

2. The core narrative is true.
          i. We need to make America great again.
          ii. We need to win The Culture War.
          iii. We need to protect the Trump administration.
          iv. Donald Trump is telling the truth.
          v. We have a duty to keep our Republic intact.
          vi. The system has failed us.
          vii. We have to take matters into our own hands.
          viii. Trump said he is with us.

3. Therefore, we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

I would say ii, v and vi existed prior to Trumpism, and have been part of the conservative mindset forever.  v are vi is arguably true on both sides of the aisle.  After decades of listening to media with a conservative bias and pundits like Rush Limbaugh, they become fired up about ii.  Then along comes Trump who speaks their language and knows how to tap into their anger, indignation and sense of being wronged.  Trump becomes a larger than life heroic archetype as the outsider with the power to cut through the red tape and fight the corruption of Washington -- "the only one we can trust."  Trump supporters believe whatever he tells them, and so when he tells them the election was stolen, they believe it.  They genuinely believe the government is no longer legitimate and their Republic is being stolen from them and so they need to take action.  This message is reinforced by Trump, Trump allies, and right wing media for months until these 'patriots' are whipped up to a fever pitch and encouraged to come to Washington for a protest on January 6th. They arrive, fightin' mad, but without a plan or any single goal, and so the march on the Capitol degenerates into a looting mob.
Considering the zip ties, pipe bombs, guns, and Molotov cocktails I will have to disagree with the "without a plan" part here.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 03:14:32 pm »
@GRWelsh

Those are some good points.

I would add, which I did not talk about in my article, is that "Donald Trump has been anointed by God for the office of President" plays heavily into the core narrative for the Christian Right.'
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GRWelsh

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 03:48:51 pm »
Considering the zip ties, pipe bombs, guns, and Molotov cocktails I will have to disagree with the "without a plan" part here.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until we have evidence there was an actual plan.  It could be that individuals acted on their own to bring the weapons and zip ties.  I haven't yet seen a plan clearly articulated, just a lot of generalized anger toward the government.  If there was a plan, what was it?  Who came up with it?  Who was it told to, and when?  There was a lot of angry rhetoric inciting the mob, but most of it was vague.  Someone described the mob as being similar to a dog that finally caught the car he was chasing: now that he has it, he has no idea what to do with it.  Without any lawmakers to confront, the rioters just wandered around, committing vandalism and minor theft.  It was like they hadn't thought that far ahead.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 03:58:00 pm by GRWelsh »
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GRWelsh

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 03:55:29 pm »
I would add, which I did not talk about in my article, is that "Donald Trump has been anointed by God for the office of President" plays heavily into the core narrative for the Christian Right.'

Some right-wingers online now refer to him as GEOTUS, which stands for "God Emperor of the United States."  Even if this is tongue-in-cheek, there is definitely a cult-like mentality out there for many Trump supporters.  They see him as special, and in way he is because he is the unifying force that brings together disparate elements on the right ranging from Evangelicals to QAnon conspiracy theorists. 
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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bdsimon

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2021, 06:44:35 am »
Considering the zip ties, pipe bombs, guns, and Molotov cocktails I will have to disagree with the "without a plan" part here.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until we have evidence there was an actual plan.  It could be that individuals acted on their own to bring the weapons and zip ties.  I haven't yet seen a plan clearly articulated, just a lot of generalized anger toward the government.  If there was a plan, what was it?  Who came up with it?  Who was it told to, and when?  There was a lot of angry rhetoric inciting the mob, but most of it was vague.  Someone described the mob as being similar to a dog that finally caught the car he was chasing: now that he has it, he has no idea what to do with it.  Without any lawmakers to confront, the rioters just wandered around, committing vandalism and minor theft.  It was like they hadn't thought that far ahead.
I think that is fair. My main point here is that there were people in the crowd with a plan for violence prior to Trump's speech. Now, they may have heard implicit approval of violence in his speech but they were likely going to do something regardless of what he said.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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noncontingent

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2021, 10:01:00 am »
Wanted to share my blog article The Logic of January 6th, which concisely is this:


1. If the core narrative* is true, then we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

2. The core narrative is true.
          i. We need to make America great again.
          ii. We need to win The Culture War.
          iii. We need to protect the Trump administration.
          iv. Donald Trump is telling the truth.
          v. We have a duty to keep our Republic intact.
          vi. The system has failed us.
          vii. We have to take matters into our own hands.
          viii. Trump said he is with us.

3. Therefore, we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

I would say ii, v and vi existed prior to Trumpism, and have been part of the conservative mindset forever.  v are vi is arguably true on both sides of the aisle.  After decades of listening to media with a conservative bias and pundits like Rush Limbaugh, they become fired up about ii.  Then along comes Trump who speaks their language and knows how to tap into their anger, indignation and sense of being wronged.  Trump becomes a larger than life heroic archetype as the outsider with the power to cut through the red tape and fight the corruption of Washington -- "the only one we can trust."  Trump supporters believe whatever he tells them, and so when he tells them the election was stolen, they believe it.  They genuinely believe the government is no longer legitimate and their Republic is being stolen from them and so they need to take action.  This message is reinforced by Trump, Trump allies, and right wing media for months until these 'patriots' are whipped up to a fever pitch and encouraged to come to Washington for a protest on January 6th. They arrive, fightin' mad, but without a plan or any single goal, and so the march on the Capitol degenerates into a looting mob.
Considering the zip ties, pipe bombs, guns, and Molotov cocktails I will have to disagree with the "without a plan" part here.

I'd pump the brakes for just a second bud. Pipe bombs at both democratic and republican HQ sounds much more like Antifa.

12

Fred

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2021, 09:24:59 pm »
Wanted to share my blog article The Logic of January 6th, which concisely is this:


1. If the core narrative* is true, then we must storm the U.S. Capitol.

2. The core narrative is true.
          i. We need to make America great again.
          ii. We need to win The Culture War.
          iii. We need to protect the Trump administration.
          iv. Donald Trump is telling the truth.
          v. We have a duty to keep our Republic intact.
          vi. The system has failed us.
          vii. We have to take matters into our own hands.
          viii. Trump said he is with us.

3. Therefore, we must storm the U.S. Capitol.
That may reflect the reasoning of some of the insurrectionists, but #1 is seriously flawed.

America depends on rule of law.  On Jan 6, there was no legal avenue to change the result of the election.  Electoral votes had been cast. The words Trump read on Dec 7 were true on Dec 5:

"My campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results"...and those legal avenues failed, It was time to accept the results, just as did Al Gore in 2000. After the 5-4 decision against his challenge. Gore said he disagreed with the SCOTUS decision, but he accepted it.  That us always the right thing to do. 

Had Trump accepted the same reality, Jan 6 would not have happened.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 09:26:53 pm by Fred »
Fred

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 07:51:48 pm »
The logic demands that the Trump delegation in Congress prepare articles of impeachment against Joe Biden for stealing the election now that the coup failed.
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wonderer

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Re: The Logic of January 6th
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 07:58:07 pm »
Had Trump accepted the same reality, Jan 6 would not have happened.

Well, I have to disagree, but then I have a tendency to interpret things literally.  ;-)
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