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noncontingent

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Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« on: April 30, 2021, 06:54:12 am »
I've been reviewing the varied denominations and what they're up to. It seems that most are going down the racist path of state-sponsored racism eg. "Anti-Racism", "White Privlege", "Jesus as a Socialist".

If you are a church member, are you fighting this anti-biblical garbage?

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noncontingent

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2021, 08:11:05 am »
https://www.rasmusen.org/blog1/the-woke-religion-the-elect-and-the-lost-assurance-of-being-saved-wokeness-as-spiritual-regeneration-works-not-faith/

The above, to me indicates that the vacuum created by theological compromise of biblical principles has in many churches and among many members a created a spiritual vacuum which is being filled with the demonic theology of woke-ism.

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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2021, 08:45:46 am »
https://www.rasmusen.org/blog1/the-woke-religion-the-elect-and-the-lost-assurance-of-being-saved-wokeness-as-spiritual-regeneration-works-not-faith/

The above, to me indicates that the vacuum created by theological compromise of biblical principles has in many churches and among many members a created a spiritual vacuum which is being filled with the demonic theology of woke-ism.

I don't understand. Aren't you the one, who innovates and goes against traditional Christian doctrine, dogma and principle, by denying the Trinity and other core doctrines? I mean, how are you any different, than these highly politicized, or liberalized, Protestants?


You're on the same ladder as they are, but just a few steps behind, unlike them who climb the ladder of innovation and progressivism. That's actually very applicable to Liberalism as a whole - apart from the influence it has had on Protestant denominations, - in that, many classical Liberals want to return back to Enlightened liberalism, but they don't realize that progressivism and liberalism are two different steps on the same ladder. Progressivism is the natural off-spring of liberalism.


Your principles beget what you now complain about in Protestant denominations: innovativeness and dealing away with established dogma and doctrine. You're just a few steps behind, but think yourself different, than them. However, you're their father and your father is the first heretic, Satan, among the plethora of heretics giving themselves to the Devil and innovating the Truth, perverting it into their own false image.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 08:47:49 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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bskeptic

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2021, 02:46:29 am »
"Progressivism is the natural off-spring of liberalism."


So supporting free speech, (liberalism), will eventually lead to wanting to censor and no platform people?

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bskeptic

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2021, 03:10:07 am »
Or classical liberalism leads to letting males play female sports etc.?

Or thinking everything is "white supremacy" and wanting to "defund the police"?

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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2021, 11:53:30 am »
"Progressivism is the natural off-spring of liberalism."


So supporting free speech, (liberalism), will eventually lead to wanting to censor and no platform people?

But it has always been censored speech. Even in classical liberalism speech was censored. What changes is what kind of speech is censored: that is, what one considers "free" speech and "off-limits" speech. By the same token, I can tell you "well, the Byzantine Empire was all for free-speech: you could speak about anything, other than blaspheming the Christian God and insulting the Emperor". But that wouldn't make sense.


Just like libertarian "free speech" doesn't make sense. No, you still get censor and what is OK to say and what isn't. The content of it is changed by progressives, but not the principle, lol. Slapping the label "free" doesn't really make it free, when there's clearly censor. By that same principle and definition, then everything is free speech.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 11:59:55 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2021, 11:58:39 am »
Or classical liberalism leads to letting males play female sports etc.?

Or thinking everything is "white supremacy" and wanting to "defund the police"?

Exactly. You should see how individualism as the focal point of civics and society leads to self-entitled individuals, who think their delusional thoughts are so special, that they are actually real, leading to the increase of mental illnesses that have people confuse reality for their delusional thoughts.


This is the off-spring. You tell son child that your entire family revolves around him and then watch him start having all kinds of delusional pretenses: I don't like this seasoning and that product that mommy cooks; I think daddy should buy X toy for me; I think my sister is too mean to me, so she must not speak to me in Y manner.


You need to understand this basic of society: the state of the family reflects the state of society, that's why the closest analogy you can draw to society is family. So, when we apply libertarian principles to family: and say, everything revolves not around the family as a whole, but around every single member of the family, then the different members will start being self-entitled and want different special things done for them.


You cannot tell everyone is equally special and then have the PIKACHU SURPRISE FACE when people become self-entitled, due to said imputed specialty.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 12:03:20 pm by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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noncontingent

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 08:41:41 am »
https://www.rasmusen.org/blog1/the-woke-religion-the-elect-and-the-lost-assurance-of-being-saved-wokeness-as-spiritual-regeneration-works-not-faith/

The above, to me indicates that the vacuum created by theological compromise of biblical principles has in many churches and among many members a created a spiritual vacuum which is being filled with the demonic theology of woke-ism.

I don't understand. Aren't you the one, who innovates and goes against traditional Christian doctrine, dogma and principle, by denying the Trinity and other core doctrines? I mean, how are you any different, than these highly politicized, or liberalized, Protestants?


You're on the same ladder as they are, but just a few steps behind, unlike them who climb the ladder of innovation and progressivism. That's actually very applicable to Liberalism as a whole - apart from the influence it has had on Protestant denominations, - in that, many classical Liberals want to return back to Enlightened liberalism, but they don't realize that progressivism and liberalism are two different steps on the same ladder. Progressivism is the natural off-spring of liberalism.


Your principles beget what you now complain about in Protestant denominations: innovativeness and dealing away with established dogma and doctrine. You're just a few steps behind, but think yourself different, than them. However, you're their father and your father is the first heretic, Satan, among the plethora of heretics giving themselves to the Devil and innovating the Truth, perverting it into their own false image.

So anyone who disagrees with the shifting teachings of the Catholic Church has Satan the Devil as their father? Or just anyone who disagrees with you?

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GRWelsh

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 09:12:49 am »
It seems that most are going down the racist path of state-sponsored racism eg. "Anti-Racism" "White Privlege", "Jesus as a Socialist"

How is "Anti-Racism" state-sponsored racism?  I've often seen this talking point, but I don't understand it.  It seems to be to be a good thing if churches are embracing a message of anti-racism.  I don't see how this is a bad thing for anybody.  As a white male, I don't feel threatened by the term "White Privilege" and I don't have any problem acknowledging it exists and should be done away with.  As far as the "Jesus as a Socialist" message, well he did minister to the poor, the unclean and the outcasts of society.  He fed the masses.  I'm not sure I'd call him a socialist with all the political ideology that is linked up to, but that does seem left leaning, doesn't it?  I certainly wouldn't call him a political conservative... It's hard to imagine Jesus arguing to do away with Medicare and Medicaid while giving more tax cuts to wealthy corporations.
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 08:06:58 pm »

So anyone who disagrees with the shifting teachings of the Catholic Church has Satan the Devil as their father? Or just anyone who disagrees with you?

I am not a Catholic to begin with. According to me, even the Catholics are in heresy, because they have erected the erroneous notion that Peter's Primacy translates into some special mode of speaking - Infallibility, - and universal authority above all other Churches - Supremacy.


Anyhow, you're shifting the question there. I told you: if you yourself ascribe to principles, which allow you to divorce from any meaningful tradition and claim whatever you want about the faith and what the faith means, then why is it so problematic that progressives do so? When you remove the historical constraints on Christianity, and turn it into a relative and subjective endeavor: it means what you read the Bible to mean(never mind tradition: you need tradition in so far as to establish the canon of Scriptures, but beyond that everything tradition says you can discard), - then progressives are just doing that, like you do, but against your own tradition. So, on what basis do you object to them? On what basis are you offended?


No, not everyone who disagrees with the Church has the Devil as their father. Those, who have been corrected numerous times, but refuse to be corrected, are pridefully stuck in the net of Satan, trapped in his delusions and being his instrument to spread heresy and falsehood about Christ and the faith. Indeed, some random Jew, who didn't hear Christ, but also didn't believe in Him, is not of the Devil, but the wicked Pharisees, whom Christ corrected many times, but they remained in their heresy, as He Himself says: have the Devil as their father.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 08:09:10 pm »
It seems that most are going down the racist path of state-sponsored racism eg. "Anti-Racism" "White Privlege", "Jesus as a Socialist"

How is "Anti-Racism" state-sponsored racism?  I've often seen this talking point, but I don't understand it.  It seems to be to be a good thing if churches are embracing a message of anti-racism.  I don't see how this is a bad thing for anybody.  As a white male, I don't feel threatened by the term "White Privilege" and I don't have any problem acknowledging it exists and should be done away with.  As far as the "Jesus as a Socialist" message, well he did minister to the poor, the unclean and the outcasts of society.  He fed the masses.  I'm not sure I'd call him a socialist with all the political ideology that is linked up to, but that does seem left leaning, doesn't it?  I certainly wouldn't call him a political conservative... It's hard to imagine Jesus arguing to do away with Medicare and Medicaid while giving more tax cuts to wealthy corporations.

Because it's based on Critical Race theory, which is itself racist against white people.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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nswoll

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 07:18:25 am »
You're going to have to do a lot more to prove your point than just expressing it

Anti-racism is not a bad thing.
White privilege is backed up by hundreds of peer-reviewed studies.
Jesus was clearly not a capitalist.

Just try to defend even one of those.

For example, the "Jesus was a socialist" view has dozens of bible verses to back it up. Why don't you address each of those verses and explain why you don't agree.

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GRWelsh

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 08:31:58 am »
Because it's based on Critical Race theory, which is itself racist against white people.

I hear this a lot from conservatives, especially white males, but I'm not at all convinced it is true.  What is your evidence for this being true?  According to the Wiki article on Critical Race Theory:

Quote
CRT is loosely unified by two common themes:

First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law.[6]
Second, that transforming the relationship between law and racial power, and also achieving racial emancipation and anti-subordination more broadly, are possible.

This isn't asserting all white people are white supremacists, or that all white people are bad.  Just like the concept of patriarchy doesn't mean all men are bad.   Also, feminism doesn't mean misandry -- it just means equality for women.  There are a lot of knee-jerk reactions from conservatives -- especially white males who feel threatened --  against certain terms, which frankly get misrepresented as something they are not. 

Saying white supremacy exists and maintains power through the law is not the same as saying all white people are racists.  Society has been improving but that doesn't mean racism is gone and we don't need to fight it anymore.  Calling out racism is not itself racism.  Calling out misogyny or women getting paid lower wages for doing the same job is not misandry. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 10:56:15 am by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.

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Spero

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 02:43:43 pm »
Quote
First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law.[6]
What specific law(s) on the books are overtly racist in the U.S.?  I’m genuinely asking because if there are any, they need to be dealt with e.g. Jim Crow laws. What I’m getting from CRT is that definitions are kept purposely convoluted and ambiguous. They can’t seem to point concretely to any one thing, so they simply say it’s just the entire system..like there’s some dark, mysterious river of hate slime from Ghost Busters 2 flowing under the whole country; the only way to fix it is to dismantle everything from the ground up. We can’t have a united population that way. No doubt there are individual cops and others out there who are racist and do racist things and that can be addressed, but to say it’s ever present in the system itself, in 2021?

Also, if you invest some time and go over there written material, GRWelsh, you’ll find stuff that’s absolutely mind boggling.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 02:47:25 pm by Spero »
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kravarnik

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Re: Woke ideology infiltrates the church
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 04:31:09 pm »
Because it's based on Critical Race theory, which is itself racist against white people.

I hear this a lot from conservatives, especially white males, but I'm not at all convinced it is true.  What is your evidence for this being true?  According to the Wiki article on Critical Race Theory:

Quote
CRT is loosely unified by two common themes:

First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law.[6]
Second, that transforming the relationship between law and racial power, and also achieving racial emancipation and anti-subordination more broadly, are possible.

This isn't asserting all white people are white supremacists, or that all white people are bad.  Just like the concept of patriarchy doesn't mean all men are bad.   Also, feminism doesn't mean misandry -- it just means equality for women.  There are a lot of knee-jerk reactions from conservatives -- especially white males who feel threatened --  against certain terms, which frankly get misrepresented as something they are not. 

Saying white supremacy exists and maintains power through the law is not the same as saying all white people are racists.  Society has been improving but that doesn't mean racism is gone and we don't need to fight it anymore.  Calling out racism is not itself racism.  Calling out misogyny or women getting paid lower wages for doing the same job is not misandry.

For one it is racist against white people, because it maintains that there's inherent privilege, due to particular laws and behavior being maintained by white people, or those in power(which for the most part are white), which has them - in virtue of one's color alone, - be predisposed toward more opportunity for power, or influence, or wealth.


That is: just for being white, one is automatically higher in society and economy. Which is just racism: one is literally basing particular actions, or results, or condition, or predisposition, on the basis of someone's skin-color.


Your distinction that "well, not all whites are supremacist and privileged", is just like me saying "I don't hate ALL black people for their skincolor, but some!". How does that change whether I am racist, or not? So, if I claim that 40 black people are dumb, because of their skincolor - but, notice, I don't say ALL black people, but just 40, - then isn't that racist? And when you say that, say, 300 white people are having success, because their skincolor, then that's not racist against whites? Am I a racist, or not, if I claimed that? And are you a racist, or not, for claiming what you do(what Critical Race theory does)?



Or you saying: this man in power trying to establish a particular order I don't like is doing so, because it is inherent to male's nature that they are toxic! But not all males, though!

OK, let me mirror that: I don't say that all females are inherently dumb, but I only say that 400 of them are, because it is inherent to female nature to be just stupid!

Am I a sexist, or not? And are you a sexist, or not?


Also, for the protocol, the above are just examples. I don't believe the hypotheticals, but they are just that: hypotheticals. You never know nowadays with all the nutjobs around and especially with the new mod team, who for all I can see are a bunch of SJWs, worse so than the previous ones.


Anyhow, saying "Saying white supremacy exists and maintains power through the law is not the same as saying all white people are racists." is racist against white people, even if you exclude some. Just like if I said that some Asian people are X, due to their skin color, is racist against them, regardless if I exclude some and include others.


You cannot claim that there's something inherent to the white skin-color, or the male, which produces particular outcome, or state, or condition, or action, and then say "oh, but I don't say ALL whites, or males!". If it is inherent to the skin-color, or the sex, then you're saying ALL, because ALL of them have said said skin-color, or said sex. There's no "partial whiteness" or "partial maleness". As if "Oh, yeah, I am a male, but I didn't get to have the toxicity that feminism say is inherent to me! BUT THIS GUY HERE DEFINITELY DID!". This is just incoherent and you're contradicting yourself.


Accept the theory as what  it is: racist and sexist against whites and males.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm