Young Genius Confronts Pastor

Kevin Harris: Bill, we have an interesting podcast that we want to get to, but before we do, perhaps you would like to say something about the events that have happened that have been so earth-shattering, especially for our country, with the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Anything that you would like to express on that?

Dr. Craig: Kevin, you and I try to avoid politics, but I think that the assassination of Charlie Kirk is not just a political assassination. It's a Christian martyrdom, frankly. He was very overt and explicit about his faith in Jesus Christ and his desire to serve God and to honor Christ with his life. He was killed for that commitment. I think that, as Christians, one of the takeaways from this tragic event is that we must not be intimidated or silenced by these threats of violence in our culture. We need to speak out boldly and bravely for Christ in the public square and to our friends and associates. We follow a crucified savior, one who was himself martyred. So we must be willing, I think, to pay the price, count the cost of discipleship. I also think that this emphasizes the importance of not using exaggerated rhetoric and hyperbole to characterize our opponents. When you call people Nazis and fascists, this provides moral justification for people to do violence against them. After all, who would object to someone living in Nazi Germany during the '30s trying to assassinate Adolf Hitler or Adolf Eichmann? When you characterize people with these kind of epithets, you're going to provide a moral justification for violence in the minds of some people leading to these kinds of tragedies. This is wholly unwarranted because no one could seriously think that these people are like the fascists that controlled national socialist Germany during the 1930s. We've got to control our rhetoric and conduct ourselves in a more civil way. Finally, I think our commitment to justice means that the perpetrators of these evil deeds, including the killer of Iryna Zarutska, the young Ukrainian female refugee who was killed on that train in Charlotte, North Carolina, must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and must be accorded their just dessert. I think that's what retributive justice requires. Those are just some thoughts that crossed my mind in the aftermath of this national tragedy.

Kevin Harris: Thank you for that, Bill. A lot of our viewers and listeners would want to know what you think about it. Thanks for sharing. We got some video clips from a popular sitcom that somebody sent to us and they thought that had some good content for a podcast. We're going to take a look at some excerpts from Young Sheldon, and that was the spin-off of the earlier sitcom The Big Bang Theory. With a name like that, maybe you watched the show, Bill. I've seen a few episodes. What about you?

Dr. Craig: No, I've never watched it. My tastes are more for programs like the old Law and Order from the 1990s. I loved the legal maneuvering and machinations of the Law and Order episodes. That's more to my taste.

Kevin Harris: Sometimes TV and movies provide some teachable moments we found with our kids and even with the church. The podcast that we did on an episode of The West Wing several years ago is still very popular. Obviously, entertainment media can also influence the worldview of millions of people. Let's check out this first clip. The main character, child prodigy, the genius Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory, that character when he was a boy, this is a prequel. Sheldon Cooper is attending church with his mother. Clip number one.

Pastor Jeff: Sometimes people say to me, "Pastor Jeff, how do you know there's a God?" And I say, "It's simple math. God either exists or he doesn't." So, let's be cynical. Worst case scenario, there's a 50/50 chance. And I like those odds.

Sheldon Cooper: That's wrong.

Sheldon’s Mother: Shelly, put your hand down. Sorry. Please continue.

Kevin Harris: I wonder where the writers came up with this 50/50.

Dr. Craig: This is really strange. Just because there are two alternatives, the odds of each one are equal? That's obviously incorrect. I either exist or I do not. Does that mean the odds of my existence are 50/50?

Kevin Harris: The pastor invites Sheldon up to the front of the church in this next clip. Clip number two.

Pastor Jeff: So, you were saying?

Sheldon Cooper: You've confused possibilities with probabilities. According to your analogy, when I go home, I might find a million dollars on my bed or I might not. In what universe is that 50/50?

Pastor Jeff: So, what do you think the odds are that God exists?

Sheldon Cooper: I think they're zero. I believe in science.

Pastor Jeff: So you don't think science and religion can go hand in hand?

Sheldon Cooper: Science is facts. Religion is faith. I prefer facts.

Pastor Jeff: I understand that. Here's a cool fact for you. A lot of famous scientists believed in God. Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, even Charles Darwin.

Sheldon Cooper: So Darwin's right about God and wrong about evolution?

Pastor Jeff: Now you're getting it. Let's give it up for Sheldon, everybody. What a good sport.

Sheldon Cooper: But I wasn't a good sport. At that moment I vowed to come back the following Sunday and destroy Pastor Jeff.

Kevin Harris: In that short clip, we have probability theory, science versus religion, and the definition of faith. For starters, Bill?

Dr. Craig: The boy's statement that the odds of God's existence are zero is just as foolish as the pastor's statement that they are 50/50. On his own definition, if science is fact and religion is faith, then they cannot come into conflict. It would only be in the case that religion also made factual claims that a conflict would be possible and thereby reduce the probability of God's existence. As I watch this clip, I'm actually more disturbed by the portrayal of the boy as wanting to destroy his pastor. This imputes to Sheldon a vengeful, evil character. He's not the innocent boy that he appears to be. They're portraying him as a really mean and nasty person, and I find that disturbing.

Kevin Harris: When the pastor listed the great scientists who are Christians, we can do that when we talk about Kepler and Lister and we go through the list of scientists who began the scientific method, it's not an appeal to authority. It's just saying that if you think that only ignorant people are followers of Christ, you're wrong. That's the appeal we're trying to make, right?

Dr. Craig: I wondered about that myself. I think that the pastor's point actually did respond to Sheldon saying that the probability of God is zero because he believes in science, because science is factual. What the pastor was giving was counterexamples of great scientists who also had a religious faith. So, in fact, it's not true then that science and religion are necessarily in conflict as Sheldon seemed to think.

Kevin Harris: In this next clip, young Sheldon's father is in the hospital, and Sheldon finds himself in the chapel praying, but not to God. Clip number three.

Sheldon Cooper: Despite what it looks like, I didn't pray to God that night. I prayed to Blaise Pascal. My thinking was if he was right about the existence of God, then he could pass along my request for my dad to get better. If he was wrong – well, in this moment, I needed him to be right.

Kevin Harris: It looks like the writers have done their homework there. They have Sheldon being knowledgeable about Pascal's Wager, which we may need to define again for someone unfamiliar with it. Also, very emotional.

Dr. Craig: It seemed to me that this wasn't really a consistent presentation of Pascal's Wager. He says, "If Pascal is right, then God exists and he can pass along his request to God." What he needed to add then was that if Pascal is wrong, then God does not exist, and so it wouldn't do any good to pray anyway. But he is choosing to pray simply because he said he needs Pascal to be right.

Kevin Harris: Again, I'm interested in some behind-the-scenes here. The writers do something kind of Pascalian with the pastor, and then young Sheldon identifies it. They're kind of dancing around Pascal's Wager here.

Dr. Craig: I'm wondering, too, about the writers. That's the really interesting thing about these clips. It's not the arguments. These arguments are on a very low level. But what's interesting is: What does this tell us about American culture, Hollywood's attitude toward religious belief and so forth? It does seem like they're trying to balance things a little bit. They make both the pastor and the boy look foolish at times. On the other hand, they give both of them some good points. It does seem that they're trying to be somewhat balanced in their presentation.

Kevin Harris: In this next clip, Sheldon is back at church and once again confronting the pastor during Sunday morning worship services. Clip number four.

Pastor Jeff: I thought I'd talk this morning about how it all began. Everybody knows on the first day of creation, God said, "Let there be light." And there was light. And when God saw that light, he knew it was good.

Sheldon Cooper: Oh, here we go.

Pastor Jeff: Yes, Sheldon.

Sheldon Cooper: You said he didn't create the sun until day four.

Pastor Jeff: Yeah.

Sheldon Cooper: So, how could there be light the first three days?

Pastor Jeff: God is light.

Sheldon Cooper: So, God's a photon?

Pastor Jeff: God's what made photons possible.

Sheldon Cooper: And what day did he do that?

Pastor Jeff: I would think on day one.

Sheldon Cooper: How could you?

Sheldon’s Father: If I grab my chest and keel over maybe we can get out of here.

Sheldon’s Mother: That's a terrible thing to say.

Pastor Jeff: . . . because the first day had just begun.

Sheldon Cooper: So, before the big bang . . .

Pastor Jeff: There was no big bang. There was only the Word.

Sheldon Cooper: Was the word “kaboom?”

Sheldon’s Mother: OK, do it. We gotta go.

Kevin Harris: Part of the comedy of this show is how obnoxious Sheldon is and his parents can't control him apparently. The writers have him showing up the pastor on the days of Genesis in front of the congregation. It's kind of cringey.

Dr. Craig: What I'm asking myself is what does this tell us about these scriptwriters and Hollywood culture? I think the takeaway here is that it shows how negatively influential Young Earth Creationism continues to be in our culture. It's still an object of mockery and ridicule that people take to be authentic Christianity. As you know, I think that's simply the wrong interpretation of Genesis chapter one.

Kevin Harris: In this next clip, they kind of continue this theme even though I haven't seen all the episodes in the seasons. They continue this theme. Sheldon's mother is having a crisis of faith. Sheldon tries to help. Clip number five.

Sheldon’s Mother: Faith means believing in something you can't know for sure is real. And right now, I am struggling with that.

Sheldon Cooper: So, you don't believe in God anymore?

Sheldon’s Mother: That isn't something for you to worry about. I need to figure this out myself.

Sheldon Cooper: Can I help? Maybe I could provide a fresh perspective. Did you know that if gravity were slightly more powerful, the universe would collapse into a ball?

Sheldon’s Mother: I did not.

Sheldon Cooper: Also, if gravity were slightly less powerful, the universe would fly apart and there'd be no stars or planets.

Sheldon’s Mother: Where are you going with this, Sheldon?

Sheldon Cooper: It's just that gravity is precisely as strong as it needs to be. And if the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the strong force wasn't 1%, life wouldn't exist. What are the odds that would happen all by itself?

Sheldon’s Mother: Why are you trying to convince me to believe in God? You don't believe in God.

Sheldon Cooper: I don't. But the precision of the universe at least makes it logical to conclude there's a creator.

Kevin Harris: Again, the writers are doing their homework. They've got some fine-tuning in there. Faith and fine-tuning come up in that clip.

Dr. Craig: Here the mother is portrayed as saying that faith means believing in something you can't know is real. That's not a biblical conception of faith. Faith is trusting in something that you have good reason to believe is true. If you have good reason to believe that something is true, the question of faith still remains: Will you trust in it? Having good reasons to believe something is true doesn't remove the requirement of faith, but faith is not believing in something that you can't know is real.

I find it really odd that they have Sheldon saying that he doesn't believe in God, but that it is logical on the basis of the fine-tuning evidence to believe in a creator. How do you put that together? Does he think that there's a creator of the universe, but that this creator is not God? Or is he simply being inconsistent? I don't know.

Kevin Harris: As an aside, I had an opportunity to interview Jerry Mathers, who played the Beaver in the Leave It to Beaver series, and he told me that one of the things that made Leave It to Beaver so funny and some of the older sitcoms so funny was that the kids talked like kids. He said, "In today's world, they make them like little adults with vocabulary beyond their years and they're wiser beyond their years and they're usually mentoring and comforting the parents rather than the other way around." I remember his words, and I had to say that that's kind of what happened here. But we have one more clip. Sheldon continues trying to comfort his mother. Clip number six.

Sheldon’s Mother: Baby, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but logic is here and my problem is here.

Sheldon Cooper: There are 5 billion people on this planet and you're the perfect mom for me. What are the odds of that?

Kevin Harris: And then they embrace. That's a real sweet scene. The head and heart dichotomy comes up. Also probability and some things like that.

Dr. Craig: Again, the difference between knowing it in your mind and really trusting in something with your heart – those are two different things. And that gap between head and heart can be difficult to bridge.

Kevin Harris: As we wrap up today's podcast, Bill, I want to get your final thoughts. I do want to mention how the pastor is portrayed in this show. He's a little smarmy or fakey. I think they were trying to pattern him after Joel Osteen. Not that Joel Osteen is smarmy or fakey or anything. It just reminded me of him. They're probably patterning him after him, but he's depicted at least attempting apologetics a couple of times.

Dr. Craig: That's true. I think that these clips that we've looked at today are not significant for the arguments that they present. As I say, they're extremely elementary on both sides. Rather, this kind of a sitcom provides a sort of thermometer for us that helps us to measure the temperature of our culture. It's good to see at least that these kinds of issues are still on the front burner.

Kevin Harris: Just one quick word before we go. If this podcast has encouraged you, I want to encourage you to consider giving back. Reasonable Faith is a completely listener-supported ministry, and your donation helps us do what we do each year, whether that's Dr. Craig's writing of a systematic philosophical theology, our animation videos on the attributes of God, or the podcast you just listened to. Help us reach more people with the truth of the Christian faith by partnering with us today. Just go to ReasonableFaith.org and click donate. Every gift makes a difference. And thank you very much.^[1]