20 Years of Reasonable Faith: How It Started and How It’s Going

Kevin Harris: I'm trying to think of a non-cliché way to say time flies when you're having fun, but I guess it's going to have to do. This year, we're celebrating 20 years of producing the Reasonable Faith podcast. And today, we'll talk about how it all started, the changes and challenges through the years. And we'll bring in our executive director, Michael Lepien, and get his thoughts here in just a moment. Stand by for that. I'm glad we're still here, Bill. We've been together longer than most Hollywood celebrity marriages, but let me ask you, did you ever think that you'd be doing something like this? Had you thought about producing something like a television show, or did you think your platform would be just teaching and public lecture and debate and restricted to that?

Dr. Craig: I must say, 20 years ago I had no idea what would become of Reasonable Faith. Our initial idea, as you remember, was to have a Christian radio show together where you and I would chat about issues of the day much as we do on this podcast. But the idea soon morphed into developing the website and the online ministry of Reasonable Faith. And since then it has just grown and grown until it is really beyond my wildest dreams, the outreach that Reasonable Faith is having all around the world.

Kevin Harris: And by the way, if anybody wants to get a quick sketch of how it all started, you spelled it out in Question of the Week number 840^[1] a couple of years ago. It's available on the website.

Let me reminisce on this a little bit here, and go back to the beginning. In fact, let me go way back to the very beginning. The Internet had just been established, and I found an article by an atheist relating how he decided to go after the arguments of who he thought was the best Christian philosopher and debater so that he could more easily beat up the average Christian apologist in chat rooms. And he said it was Dr. William Lane Craig. So I went out to find your books and discovered that no Christian bookstores I visited had anything. So I went to Barnes & Noble, and I found a few, and I found the video cassette of you beating the pants off of Frank Zindler in Chicago, and they had a couple of your books. I began to collect your work and study it, and that led to me contacting you for what would become several interviews.

Later, I decided to introduce myself to you at the debate with Parsons in Dallas-Fort Worth, but 4,000 people showed up and I couldn't get anywhere near you. I was able to introduce myself and speak to you at the Marcus Borg debate a little later at the University of North Texas, and we actually did a couple of early interviews. I was in Austin at the time doing radio there, but the fateful interview happened a little bit later in the Dallas area. One thing I wonder, if it was the Zindler debate video and its distribution that influenced your desire to expand your reach, Bill. How did it affect you? Were you doing any other media when that came out?

Dr. Craig: Not at the time. This event you're referring to was a debate held at Willow Creek Community Church in the Chicago suburbs that was organized by Lee Strobel and Mark Mittelberg, who were relatively unknown pastoral staff at Willow Creek. And it turned out to be the biggest indoor event that Willow Creek had ever had. Some 8,000 people came out to hear this debate with Frank Zindler of the American Atheist Association. I think that I remained frustrated following the debate by its limited impact. I had hoped that it would really become widely disseminated, but that wasn't true. And so my desire to do something broader was just the result of the sort of frustration that for 25 years I had been involved in campus speaking and debating, and yet the impact of the ministry seemed to be largely confined to a corner, and I wanted badly to have more of a cultural influence on our society for Christ.

Kevin Harris: Zindler, he was supposed to be unbeatable. Boy, was there a sea change in that. Anyway, in the early 2000s I was hired by a radio group in Dallas-Fort Worth and once again interviewed you over the phone. It always went so well that I thought that we should do a radio show together. We talked about it: Reasonable Faith Radio. I thought maybe a daily live call-in show would be good, but I knew that your schedule wouldn't allow for that. You agreed that we should do it, and we decided on a pre-recorded program. I think it was you who knew that syndicated marketing firm in Atlanta. They had a studio for recording there.

Dr. Craig: Right. I had forgotten all about them. But we actually had contracted with them to start this radio show called Reasonable Faith.

Kevin Harris: I came out to Atlanta. We recorded several hours of material. Then you were one of the guest lecturers on a cruise, and a conversation there changed everything. What happened?

Dr. Craig: This was an Alaskan cruise sponsored by Stand to Reason with Greg Koukl. And on this cruise, Jan and I met Kurt Swindoll, who is the son of the famous pastor Chuck Swindoll. And Kurt Swindoll works as a consultant to various ministries. And when he heard about our idea of starting a Reasonable Faith radio program, he took us aside and said, “Bill and Jan, you don't want to do that.” He said, “Christian radio is a dying medium. You've got to go on the internet, and you can do podcasting there of a program and establish an Internet site for Reasonable Faith that will post your material.” This turned everything upside down for Jan and me. We spent a very sleepless night after that conversation, but we sensed that Kurt was right and that therefore we had to get out of this contract that we had signed and raise money to establish a website and begin totally anew. And that was the bold step that we took.

Kevin Harris: I was resistant at first because I thought radio would continue to dominate. TV was supposed to be the end of radio, and then cassettes and CDs were supposed to be the end of radio. It had some staying power. But it turned out that Kurt was right. The rise of podcasting—I started seeing layoffs at radio stations across the country and problems and things like that. The Internet was this juggernaut. I have sent our podcast to radio stations who wanted to air it for free, and we did make some radio happen. But I'm curious, Bill, as everything was going online, did you ever go on to any of those early chat debate rooms and mix it up? I don't think you did. I think you were too focused on your work.

Dr. Craig: No, I never did. I don't even know how to do it. It just didn't seem the best use of my time, and I'm not familiar with the technology in any case. So no, this is something that I have prescinded from.

Kevin Harris: So you started the web-based ministry, and we began regular recording sessions. And we thought that a conversational format would be best, and I would try to ask what the average layperson might ask. Next – I still can't believe that we did this – I would come to Atlanta about twice a year loaded with 30 or 40 topics, reams of paper, my toothbrush, and a bunch of recording equipment, and we holed up in a hotel room and recorded about 25 podcasts over two or three days. So we must have been younger. We did that until everyone's favorite year rolled around, 2020. Then another change. Bill?

Dr. Craig: Yes. COVID. The pandemic really changed everything. And so we began recording remotely, which is what we're still doing today. It also changed my speaking ministry. I could no longer travel and speak. And so when COVID hit, I took up the project of writing my Systematic Philosophical Theology, which is about an eight-year project in which I am still engaged today.

Kevin Harris: I miss those times coming to Atlanta, Bill, to be able to see Jan, spend some time with the two of you, and eat at the LongHorn Steakhouse and all the great Chinese food. At any rate, we did have some good times, but boy, was it difficult. Let's bring in the executive director of Reasonable Faith, Michael Lepien. Michael, come on in here and talk to us about when you became aware of Dr. Craig and what led to your position with Reasonable Faith.

Michael Lepien: Sure. I first heard about Dr. Craig probably about 2010. Jacqueline, my wife, and I were helping plant a church in Denton, Texas. And my brother-in-law mentioned Dr. Craig and said, “Man, I came across this guy. I started watching his debates. You need to look him up.” And so I looked up Dr. Craig. And funny enough, the very first video I ever saw of Dr. Craig—and I think it's still one of our most popular videos we put out every year—was the short clip. It's less than five minutes. I'm sure our audience will probably recognize it as soon as I start talking about it. It's Dr. Craig, your debate with Peter Atkins, your first debate with him, where he is just so confident in saying that we should only believe what can be proven by science. And Dr. Craig, you just said, “There are actually a number of things that can't be proven by science.” And, “Oh yeah, like what?” He just served a softball to you. Just how you always talk about if an atheist says, “Yeah, like what?” and you just rattle off these five things. And whoever the camera switcher was for that event was brilliant because as you're going, as you get to about point three, it shifts and it shows Peter Atkins, and he is shocked. You could just see it on his face. He has no idea how to respond. And that clip just won me over. I thought, “My goodness.” I have watched it I don't know how many times since then.

And then Defenders for me was a huge impact. I remember sending that to several friends of mine just going, “Gosh, this is some of the clearest teaching I've ever heard.” And so for me it really became—you and I actually first met at an apologetics conference in 2010, that same year, at Denton Bible Church when you were there. I think it was in conjunction with EPS because I think it was in November that year. And so you spoke and J.P. Moreland spoke. And I remember being there for that, and you signed my copy of On Guard. That was when I first got it.

A few years later, as we're still helping start this church, the then co-executive director of Reasonable Faith reached out to me. We had a relationship. And he said, “Hey, we need someone to help run our social media. Is that something you would be willing to do?” And I thought, “Well, my goodness, I don't even have to pray about that. Of course, I want to do that. Yes, absolutely. I would love to do that.” And so that one thing led to another. I started doing graphic design and video editing and such, and then eventually that became the executive director role. So it's really just been a tremendous experience and a tremendous honor for me to be able to serve in this role helping Dr. Craig carry out the work of the ministry so that he can do what he does, which is write his Systematic Philosophical Theology. So it's my role and the role of our entire team to help keep the machine of Reasonable Faith moving, carrying out his executive directives, but really trying to relieve Dr. Craig from a lot of the administration and all the other things happening behind the scenes so that he can do what only he can do and the rest of us in the world can benefit from his work. So that's how my role came to be here, and it's still a privilege to be able to do it.

Kevin Harris: Well, I've been going through the archives, and let's play a couple of clips that bring back some memories. A few years ago, Bill, you were invited to speak at the Bible and Beer Consortium in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which was a unique event founded by Ezra Boggs. It was held at a local nightclub. He invited Christian speakers to lecture there or debate and take questions. And here's the introduction to that podcast.

Introduction (recording): Friday night, the streets of downtown Dallas. They can be as hard as the concrete and steel of the city. But tonight, I'm cruising the drag of neon and traffic noise to forget about her. There's nothing quite like the pain of a dame. Now, if I could only find a beer as cold as her heart. The night air was too pure. I needed a smoky joint. I needed a roiling sea of forgetfulness, much like the quantum vacuum, which is actually not nothing, but is endowed with a rich structure and continually forming and dissolving particles. So I walked into a familiar dive, and boy was I in for a surprise. There was some kind of special event going on. So I took a seat in the back and looked toward the dimly lit stage through the humanity and the haze and nearly had a heart palpitation conniption. Was that actually David Lee Roth of Van Halen? I thought I'd hit pay dirt. Maybe the rest of the band would show up. But some hipster sitting next to me clutching a Bible of all things told me it was just a guy named Craig who had been invited to give a talk on the resurrection of Jesus. What did I look like, the Easter Bunny? Was I in the Twilight Zone transported back to Miss Crabapple's Sunday school class? But I needed the distraction. So I decided to listen. After the talk, the people were given the chance to ask this wise guy some questions. This is where my story picks up.

Kevin Harris: One more clip that I think is memorable, Bill. We were talking about your secret weapon, and that is, of course, your lovely bride, Jan. And toward the end of the podcast when we were talking about her, we both got emotional, manly men that we are, and we couldn't speak. Rather than edit it out, I left it in. Here's what it sounded like.

Kevin Harris (recording): Bill, it's a choice. It happens to be this choice that she wanted to take on this supporting role.

Dr. Craig (recording): Yes, very much so. She freely took on this supporting role rather than seek the limelight herself. Very, very early in our marriage, I remarked to her one day, “I feel like I can do anything if there's just one person that believes in me.” And she later told me that when I said that, she thought to herself, “I want to be that one person.”

Kevin Harris (recording): And she certainly has been.

Dr. Craig (recording): Yeah.

Kevin Harris: Another thing that we need to bring up in the history of Reasonable Faith are the Zangmeister videos. Michael, talk a little bit about the impact of that and how that came about.

Michael Lepien: Yeah. So we first heard—certainly for me, Dr. Craig – the first I'd ever seen one of Jim Zangmeister, our lead animator, one of his videos was at the 2012 Apologetics Conference in Dallas, Texas called “Answering Christianity's Critics.” I had just started working for the ministry doing social media then. The first time I met Jan was at that conference. And Frank Turek got up and showed one of Jim's videos that, for our listeners, you can find it. It's called “Is God Good?” on YouTube.^[2] And I remember the co-executive directors at the time, the three of us were texting each other during that talk and saying, “My goodness, who did this video? This is phenomenal.” And so really the work began to connect with who this individual was and be able to really start creating some of, for us, one of the most influential videos that we have on our YouTube platform. Specifically, the ontological argument has over 2 million views on it over the years. It's just absolutely phenomenal to be able to see the work that Jim has done and his ability to storytell and communicate some of these truths. So, Dr. Craig, I know you and him connect really well over these working on the scripts. There's a lot of work that goes into that behind the scenes in preparation for us to release it.

Dr. Craig: Oh yes. When we first saw that video, I believe Zangmeister was working for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. And in time he came over then to Reasonable Faith and left the Graham Association to produce these videos. And it has been marvelous working with him, working on scripts, on the animation, and for me sometimes voiceovers. These have really been a remarkable tool that have been translated into languages all around the world and are having a very broad impact throughout the world.

Michael Lepien: And in continuing with that, not just our arguments for the existence of God, which we've kind of coined our On Guard series, now he's also doing our animation videos on the attributes of God, which is largely based on your Systematic Philosophical Theology. And these are fantastic 10- to 12-minute long sort of deeper dives into each of these attributes that I really think are going to be very impactful for church Sunday school classes and small groups and, of course, our chapters, which we'll talk about here in a moment. But I think to really help flesh out a lot of our understanding of what these attributes of God are. So he just does a masterful job putting together these things. And of course you also do a good job, Dr. Craig, recording with the teleprompter. That was something that some of the recorders, those guys that were there, said, “My goodness, have you ever done this before?” Because they were impressed you actually did it in one take. So our listeners can know some more behind-the-scenes things there.

Kevin Harris: Bill, Michael brought up the chapters and chapter directors. Talk a little bit about that.

Dr. Craig: I got this idea from Hugh Ross and Reasons to Believe. Reasons to Believe has local chapters all around the country where people who are interested in science and theology come together to talk, interact, read a book, or watch a video together. And it seemed to me that this would be an ideal outreach for Reasonable Faith. I find that people who are interested in these sorts of questions tend to be intellectually lonely, as I put it. They are typically in churches where no one else understands them. There are not very many people that are interested in these things. And I thought if we could provide a fellowship and forum that would empower these local leaders to have a Reasonable Faith chapter on their own and to reach out in evangelism and discipleship, this could be a tremendous ministry. And that's what we've done. We now have, I think, over 250 of these local chapters in something like 39 different countries around the world. And this helps to empower local people to have a ministry of their own. We go through a very rigorous certification process to make sure that they're qualified to carry the Reasonable Faith brand. And today this is an expanding aspect of our ministry.

Michael Lepien: Yeah. Just to add to what Dr. Craig has said, our chapters are led by our global chapter director, Tyson James, who does a wonderful job connecting with our chapters, coaching them. Dr. Craig, you just mentioned the rigorous process of going through our process. We don't just let anybody become a chapter director. We want to make sure that they're the right people that connect with the ministry and represent Reasonable Faith well. And that's an in-depth process that we have team members that help guide them through that, who help them discover the right answers as they're working through their answers to certain quizzes and questions and essays that they write.

Not only Tyson, who oversees our entire global chapters, but we also have regional chapter directors in Latin America and in Brazil—Leandro, who is down in Brazil, and Raul, who is in Latin America. These guys do a phenomenal job helping chapter directors develop within these regions of the world. My hope is that we will see regional chapter directors develop in India and in Africa and in Europe to be able to help them grow even more. Tyson has a great vision to say, “Look, we have a little over 250, 260 chapters worldwide right now. Let's push that to 500. Let's get to 1,000.” Let's get to chapters all over the world. And Dr. Craig, your point about us helping to empower them to have their own ministries there within their communities is so important because it's not just us giving them things and saying, “Okay, you have to do this.” These folks are developing people within their communities and their churches and carrying out the work of Christ and winning people to Jesus as evangelists all around the world. We recently started our first chapter in Pakistan. And Dr. Craig, we're working to schedule an interview that you're going to be doing with our first chapter director in Pakistan. So it's just incredible to see what God is doing through our chapter directors around the world, and we're so grateful for our team members that help to make it all possible.

Kevin Harris: And Michael, while we have you, you have to keep an eye on certain trends and what's popular, like response videos are really popular these days. They're short. Bill, you have a lot of those out there. Web resources like Equip that are free, Defenders, and some things like that. Talk about some of our resources.

Michael Lepien: Yeah. The first one that really, as you mentioned it there, is our Equip platform. Several years ago we had a team member come to us—in fact, Jim Zangmeister, our lead animator. He said, “Man, we have a lot of content.” He works with high school students a lot. And he said, “We have a lot of content, but we need a guide to help guide people through all of our content.” And so he and Casey Sudduth, our social media director, really started putting together a proof of concept. How could we put together all of our content? We have thousands of videos and articles and podcasts. You can imagine we have a mountain of content to go through. And so now we have developed this Equip platform that is completely free of charge. People can go on and create an account. And we have, I think it's over 16 or 17 courses now, everything from basic apologetics all the way up to Molinism, if you want to walk through a course on Molinism. And it's just absolutely phenomenal.

In fact, I'm really excited because right now we're in the process of—we'll have the website still, but also we're converting it into an app as well so that people can be able to access it wherever they want to on the go. And so it's just wonderful to be able to see how folks can use this type of content. We've received testimonials from people living in Japan who are walking through these courses. So all over the world it's been a phenomenal platform that is enabling people—now over 12,000 users—to be able to grow in their confidence of sharing their faith and then ultimately growing in their understanding of their faith as well. So that is a really huge part of that.

But we absolutely try to continue to keep our finger on the trends of what's happening on social media and on YouTube and just constantly trying to say, how can we continue to perpetuate the work that Dr. Craig is doing? That's what makes Reasonable Faith so unique – we have Dr. Craig's work that serves as the foundation of all the things that we do. And so there's always lots more content to put out there into the world. And so it's incredible just to see some of these things going out into the world and changing people's lives.

Dr. Craig: I think one of the other things that makes Reasonable Faith so unique is the diversity of ministries that it carries out. For example, there are something like three or four YouTube channels that receive hundreds of thousands, even millions of views every year. We've got the website that features both scholarly and popular articles that people can read. I write a Question of the Week every week. I'm getting close now to my 1,000th question that is coming up. We've got the Defenders class in Christian doctrine that I teach at our local church. We filmed the entire Series Three of Defenders so that people can watch this online or they can read the transcripts of the lessons. And currently we're going through this sequence again in Defenders Series Four, and I add additional insights and revisions based on my current work.

And then we've already mentioned my Systematic Philosophical Theology. This is a monumental task. And again, nothing like this has been done in recent centuries—to write not just a systematic theology, but a systematic philosophical theology that benefits from the current revolution in Anglo-American philosophy in support of a Christian worldview. So in these and other ways that I can't even think of right now, Reasonable Faith is just trying to use every medium that we can think of to get the Gospel out and to train people to be more effective in sharing and defending their Christian faith.^[3]