Speaking and Debating in the UK

Transcript Speaking and Debating in the UK

Kevin Harris: It's another Reasonable Faith podcast, and we're glad you're here. I'm Kevin Harris with Dr. William Lane Craig in studio. Big trip coming up this October, Bill, to England, a trip to the U.K. We've got the program here in front of us, and it looks just packed for you.

Dr. Craig: Yes, it does.

Kevin Harris: Give us an overview.

Dr. Craig: Well, the last time I was in the U.K. was in 2007, and we had just a fabulous time. Peter May, who is the head of the InterVarsity in England, or he was the chairman of their board, began to get calls from people saying, “When are you going to bring Craig back over again? Isn't it time?” Peter felt, yeah, this is something that he thinks it was time to do. So they put together this two-week – or ten day, I guess – debating and speaking tour that will take me to some of the principal universities in England as well as other sites, and it will include about four very challenging debates as well as a number of other events.

Kevin Harris: Now, what is really getting everyone's attention from the outset, and we have to mention it, and that is, the challenge has been made, the arrangements has been made, the empty chair has been set out for Dr. Dawkins, for Richard Dawkins, to come and debate or dialogue. Now, so far he has declined, and this has just lit up the internet and the blogosphere.

Dr. Craig: That's right. One of the things that Peter May told me was unexpected about the trip this time was the cooperation and the initiative, actually, taken by many atheists to promote this tour. They are very anxious to see people like Dawkins and me engage one another in public debate and dialogue. And so quite a number of atheist philosophers and other activists have been involved in promoting these events, and one of them, as you say, is on the evening of October 25^th in Oxford where Richard Dawkins has been invited to participate in a debate on the subject “Is God a Delusion?” And they have rented the Sheldonian Theatre in Oxford to hold this event. This is a Christopher Wren theatre designed by this great master – a beautiful venue. And they'll have an empty chair and table for Dawkins right up to the last minute should he care to show up. But if he doesn't, they have a panel of three experts – philosophers – who will respond to my lecture on Richard Dawkins, and then I'll dialogue a bit with these three panelists before we throw it open to the audience for discussion.

Kevin Harris: So on the 25^th, then, you'll be lecturing on Dawkins' book?

Dr. Craig: Yes, I'll be giving my response to his critique of theistic arguments, why he thinks there are no good arguments for the existence of God, and I'll try to show that those critiques are often based on misunderstandings or aimed at straw men and therefore really do nothing to undermine the principal theistic arguments.

Kevin Harris: You know, some very creative videos have shown up [laughter] that are making this like the clash of the titans – you know – and some of them are so funny.

Dr. Craig: They've been hilarious. And some of these have been produced precisely by a fellow who has been heretofore an unbeliever. He started off as an atheist, but was just disgruntled and dissatisfied with Dawkins' refusal to engage and the paltry excuses that he gave for refusing to debate. And so it's been just interesting to see the movement in this fellow's own personal life as he's begun to develop these videos and has become more and more on board with promoting the tour. And he says now that he is no longer an atheist, which is very encouraging.

Kevin Harris: Great.

Dr. Craig: So, yeah, these videos are priceless; they are side-splitting, some of them, they're so funny.

Kevin Harris: Dawkins is considered by many – by most – to be the most influential atheist in contemporary times.

Dr. Craig: Yeah, I think that's probably not an exaggeration, Kevin.

Kevin Harris: I wouldn't think so. I mean, when the four horsemen of the New Atheism are mentioned he's always first on the list, and the best-selling status of his books. He really ought to kind of put his money where his mouth is because he's organized a coming out type campaign to wear the red “A” T-shirt, the atheist, to 'come out!' and to 'speak up!' Well, okay, he's got an opportunity to speak up here and to dialogue with you. Why doesn't he just come on out and engage?

Dr. Craig: I'm not going to try to guess his motives, but he is very resolute about this. [1] And so I don't think anybody really expects him to show up.

Kevin Harris: Okay. What is your main thrust? What do you want to accomplish when you go to the U.K.? What are some of the peculiarities, needs, of the U.K. that you want to . . .

Dr. Craig: My desire is to raise the profile of Christianity on these university campuses so that students will think about it as a real living option for them today. I want them to see that Christian faith is a perfectly rational thing to embrace, and an attractive option, as well. So that's my main goal.

Kevin Harris: Let's discuss some of the debates and the lectures that you have. The October 17^th debate.

Dr. Craig: This was the one that Polly Toynbee backed out of after agreeing to participate in it. She is the head of the British Humanist Association, and I believe now that Stephen Law is going to step in. He is a philosopher, he edits a journal for the Royal Institute of Philosophy in Great Britain, and he is a very credible opponent. In fact as a result of people like Dawkins and Toynbee and others refusing to debate what has happened is really tough opponents have stepped up to the plate that will, I think, give us much more sophisticated debates, that will be much more substantive, and certainly we can expect that from Stephen Law.

I also have another debate that's going to take place at my alma mater which is the University of Birmingham in the U.K. And this will be with an Oxford professor named Peter Millican. He has recently been promoted to a full professorship at Oxford. He is a David Hume scholar, and he's preparing already for these debates. I've seen some emails from him, and he is working on the Blackwell Companion for Natural Theology, reading those articles. He's been seeing some of my debates on YouTube.

So my expectation is that with Law and Millican, at least, we're going to have really tough, substantive debates. My expectation is that these debates will basically come out to be a draw. I think in any good debate between good opponents it should come out pretty much an even playing field. And so I'm hoping that in these debates at least that Christianity will be seen to be a reasonable and rational alternative for students today.

Kevin Harris: What are the topics of these debates—have they been established yet?

Dr. Craig: You know, I don't have the exact wording on all of them, and that is important. This is all still in flux; this itinerary is not set in cement, though these specific events are pegged down. I think the topic for most of them will be either “Is God a Delusion?” or “Does God Exist?” They're going to be debates on theism.

Kevin Harris: Several of your talks—one will be at the Imperial College, a lunchtime lecture: The Evidence For God. And that will be live on the internet as well.

Dr. Craig: Hopefully. They're working on this. They want to have live streaming broadcast on the internet of some of these, so they're trying to arrange for that to be done. I can't say for sure that it will happen, but that is in the works. People will need to go to the website ReasonableFaith.org and click on our calendar, or to the website for the tour – bethinking.org – in he U.K. for the latest details on when and where these events take place.

Kevin Harris: Let's talk about the Cambridge events.

Dr. Craig: Yes. These are very interesting. Cambridge, of course, is where the famous physicist Stephen Hawking is a professor, or was a professor. And so one evening there on the 19^th I'm going to be giving a public lecture on Hawking's new book The Grand Design in which he claims to have eliminated the need for a creator and designer of the universe. And so it will be very exciting to be in Hawking's hometown or on his home turf offering a critique of his views.

And then the next night on the 20^th we're having another debate which is going to be at the Cambridge Debating Union, which is the oldest debating society in the world, I'm told. And this is going to be a British-style debate, Kevin. That is to say, it will not be the typical format that people have seen me debate. Rather in this debate there will be four speakers principally, and they will give an opening statement, our position, and this one will have a resolution in British style—the house believes that it is rational to believe in God, or something like that. And then we will be the house and defend that, and then the opponents will oppose it. And after we give our opening speech, then the floor is thrown open to the house, to the whole audience, and everybody in the audience gets to get up and speak—it's just like the House of Commons. [2] And they can interrupt the speakers – you know – and have cat calls and things of this sort!.It's a real free for all, open British-style debate. And then at the very end we have the opportunity to get up and give a sort of summarizing closing statement. But for the most part we're actually out of it, it's mostly just this free for all among the audience participants. So this is going to be a really interesting evening. And I'll be partnered, I think, with a British philosopher and apologist named Peter Williams—he will be my partner in this debate. I'm not sure who the opposition is going to be yet. I think that's still . . . they're still looking for them.

Kevin Harris: That is amazing to watch – those debates – those British-style debates. I don't think we can do that in America. I think we just don't have the decorum. Somehow they can pull it off.

Dr. Craig: [laughter] I'm going to feel a little bit like a fish out of water, I think, in this. I'll be glad to have Peter Williams by my side as a Brit himself.

And then the last debate that we're going to be having is on October 26^th. This will be up in Manchester, and it will be with Dr. Peter Atkins – former chemistry professor at Oxford University – and you may recall, I actually debated Atkins several years ago here at the Carter Center in Atlanta, Georgia and had a very interesting exchange with him moderated by William F. Buckley Jr. – the late political pundit. So Atkins and I will be crossing swords again for a second time.

So we've got really four debates lined up. We've got the debate in Westminster, Central Hall in London with Steve Law; then we've got the debate at the University of Birmingham with Peter Millican; and then we have the Cambridge debates partnered with Peter Williams and against unspecified opponents; and then finally the debate with Peter Atkins at Manchester. And then interspersed with this are these other events like the lectures in Oxford with the panelists responding. And then I've got a lecture that's set up in Southampton that may have a respondent as well.

So all of these events are very exciting. They involve having atheists and unbelievers on the platform with me. In no way are we trying to shelter me or the Gospel from open critique and fair discussion. I think it's just a marvelous package that the University and College's Christian Fellowship in the U.K. are putting together.

Kevin Harris: We're going to have a lot to talk about when you get back.

Dr. Craig: Oh, is that true.

Kevin Harris: While you're there the Be Thinking National Conference will be there as well.

Dr. Craig: That's right. In London I'll be partnering with people like John Lennox, Peter Williams, Gary Habermas is coming over for that, and we'll be having a sort of apologetics training conference on Saturday, October 22^nd to help equip people to articulate and defend their faith. And so I'm really thrilled to be partnered with these other gentlemen in providing this sort of training. And it provides a nice variety. I'll be doing more than just debating and lecturing, but will also be doing this conference training as well. So I would encourage all Christians who are in the U.K. who live close enough to London to put some of these events on their schedule and to try to come out, and especially if they can bring a non-Christian friend to some of these events—it's a great evangelistic opportunity.

Kevin Harris: That will be Saturday, October the 22^nd, and people can go to bethinking.org to get more information. You and I have talked in past podcasts about the spiritual state of the U.K. Talk a little bit about that.

Dr. Craig: Well, the U.K. is a very secular society, now—very pluralistic. They've had a tremendous influx of immigrants from former colonies after the Second World War which has heightened the religious diversity of Great Britain. So there is a lot of secular thinking, a lot of non-Christian religious thinking in the country. And as a result I think less than ten percent of Britains attend church on a Sunday morning. Ninety percent don't darken the doorway of a church. So a very secular society, but I do want to say Christianity is represented in Great Britain by tremendous scholars: people like N.T. Wright in New Testament studies; philosophers like Richard Swinburne; theologians like John Polkinghorne and Alistair McGrath. There's a great intellectual tradition of Christian thinkers in Great Britain, and I'm pleased to be partnered with them in the effort to articulate and defend the Gospel in this great country. [3]

Kevin Harris: We hear a lot in the news about an influx of Islam there, as well.

Dr. Craig: Yeah, that's right. That's part of the wave of immigration following the Second World War from countries like Pakistan and other nations that were under British control up to the time of the war.

Kevin Harris: I'm going to ask that people pray for you, that you would be protected on this trip, that your health would be good, and that you would be able to maintain energetically this very rigorous schedule.

Dr. Craig: Thank you, Kevin. I think the prayer for physical strength and stamina is especially needed because this does promise to be very exhausting, but exhilarating as well.

Kevin Harris: We'll look forward to talking about that in future podcasts. Thanks for being here on Reasonable Faith with Dr. William Lane Craig. [4]